Are Indians corrupt?

Mar 5 2004  | Views 12269 |  Comments  (245)
It cannot be denied that the average citizen encounters more petty corruption in India than in the United States. If this corruption is a factor of relative moral character, then this must imply that Americans possess a higher moral character than Indians, which results in the United States having a lower degree of corruption than India. Examining data like the Corruption Perception Index published by Transparency International... Expand

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  Millennium posted 2 yrs ago

It was interesting to go through the topic. It was a deep study in to it. Congratulations. It is the need of the hour that we need to look forward to have a better society. Our honourable president Mr. Kalam has opened this topic and the call to free India from the hands of corruption is absolutly desrves attention and responses. Street demonstration and public addressing has no more value in the hearts of the people. But this topic should stirr the conscience of every Indian and that should create the tornado of anti corruption mentality all over the nation. Our leaders lead us to be like this. We need to learn how to appreciate and encourage the virtues of life like Honesty, Sincerety, Sacrifice, Dedication, Forbearance, Tolrance Etc. We should learn first then teach our children about it. The violators of rules are unfortunately considered as 'smart people' of the nation. Transperancy needs to be reinstated in the system. We should learn to obey and honour the system. The attitude of the common man in India towards his/her government is something like an alien in his/her life. All of our lives are affected with what our political leaders do inside or outside of the parliament. Let us not mock the one who tries to take care for another. Well it is time for us to make India a dependable and trustable nation in front of the international community. Let us make our living much easier by respecting and caring others. Let us serve India and let us be served by India. Actually we Indians are good. I am proud of that. We need to be better. Let the justice begin from the court room of our hearts. Justice for all. Equality for all. Respect for all. Favouritism and bribery should be looked down and discouraged. Let us develop a mentality to keep up the dignity and decency. JAI BHARATH.



  junkyarddog posted 2 yrs ago

Corruption is a function of the level of literacy in any country. And more importantly the ability of the majority of the people in a country to see why you need a level of honesty in general for proper functioning of society and its mechanisms. If the majority of the people realize that corrupion at a small level locally when you GIVE a bribe has larger implications nationally, that's when you turn a corner and corruption is not tolerated.

Most cities in the U.S will not tolerate corruption but there are places like New Orleans that proved that if the general literacy level is lower, corruption seeps in. At the beginning of the 20th Century, places like New York City and Chicago where they had a large immigrant illiterate population (if you do not know the local language you are as good as illiterate), corruption levels were higher.

Literacy also needs to combine with Democracy to make the corruption go away. Intolerance of corruption needs to go hand in hand with the ability to root out people in power that are corrupt. That happens only when democracy is practised in enlightened ways untainted by caste, religion and language politics.

So the real answer is Literacy!!

This will also answer the question why are the ex colonies corrupt while the colonizing countries were not. Again the level of literacy is the explanation.

Why are people in England so polite to each other? They know that in a country where the weather is so awful and so many people live in such close proximity to one another, unless they are polite it will become a bad existence for everyone.

Same principle applies to corruption. If everyone deep down feels that it is not right to tolerate or encourage corruption it goes away. That happens only when the population is literate and can think longer term consequences of shorter term rights and wrongs! In addition they need to have the power to send corrupt people in power packing. That happens when you have a real democracy. This also happens only when you have true and widespread literacy!

Coming up with American or European examples of corruption is only self-defeating. The extent is small and miniscule in comparison to the corruption experienced by the common man in places like India. When was the last time you ran into a person in the US or in Europe who claimed that they got a drivers license by bribing the guy who gives you the driving test?



  Vijayshubhre posted 2 yrs ago

Well, you've raised an issue that has been debated in India for more number of times than any other issue. As said by an eminent person ,"corruption is a global phenomenon and thus let us not break our head over it".
It's more as looking at a half filled glass as half empty or half filled that corruption has been viewed in India.If our President says that it can be stopped by the parents and the elementary school teacher , I think he is unduly optimistic about curing a disease that has assumed the cancerous proposition in India.Having said so, I must also praise him for showing genuine concern.
More important , perhas,is to analyse the causes that have fanned corruption in India or may be else where. I believe that the main reason for it is the demand vs supply syndrome in every walk of life in India. The less the supply the more shall be the tendency to grab the object. Be it school and college admissions, booking of railway tickets , cinema tickets ....every where and because of the mentioned  reason palms are greased.I predict that India shall soon witness tremendous corruption in the admission to IITs and IIMs thanks again to the chucle headedness of a few headless people who are out to reserve the seats for the "so called" backward class candidates there.The more you make the system rigid the more will be corruption.
India suffers mainly because of a complete lack of  public leadership now.Gone are the days when Jaiprakash's  call to students and youth resulted in the famous Bihar movement of 1974 that aimed to eliminate corruption from the public life.Today , we don't have any leader of that stature.No leader is above the dirty and murky power politics.Add to it now the potentially destructive caste politics invented by the present rulers there is no possibility that India will have a statesman like figure in the foreseeable future who can make a frontal attack on this monster. 
From my experience of the JP movement and subsequently of the public sector , having been in a responsible position for over 23 years and till now ,I'm led to believe that one of the main reasons why corruption doesn't stop is that we have never tried to reward the people with clean image and at the same time have never punished any corrupt person.Thus ,examples have not been set in public life for youngesters to emulate.

Your article was good and involves an issue nobody can afford to ignore.The debate must go on

V K Mathur
Ranchi, India
http://www.vkmathur.com
 




  Salil posted 2 yrs ago

Yet, one may argue – isn't this a straightforward business transaction? [6]I'm paying for a service to the lineman and he is installing the phone. On giving the payment, I am certain that the line will be installed, it would be very unusual for the fellow to run away with my money. So, on one level, this business transaction has a high level of integrity – and in that sense, the linesman doesn't appear to be fundamentally dishonest. On the other hand, one can argue that this is clearly corruption because he is already getting paid by the government to perform this service and he is not doing his job.


This seems to be rather a poor attempt at allaying our conscience.
We ARE ALREADY paying the lineman by paying our taxes. And take any government system, you will have people who need to interact with you and are supposed to do their job helping you. But this "bakshish" practice does not happen in the developed countries.



By contrast, in the Indian system, power is centralized to a much greater degree at the level of the national and state governments. Further, the centralized colonial state apparatus, right from its inception, was never designed to serve the people. As an example, the government official at the district level was called a collector, his primary role in the system was extortion, not service. Similarly, the power of the police apparatus devolved downwards as a means of control of the local population for the benefit of the rulers, not as an arm of the community for its own protection and service.


Your suggestion of making this system more decentralised makes absolute sense. But, I don't think it's the main problem. I doubt whether having Mayors instead of collectors will solve the problem. e.g. there is litle diference in the executive power of chielf ministers and Senators, yet we have more corruption at the state level.
Though your argument is correct about the names,  the responsibilities of these posts had changed to effectively handle the governance.
I don't think our law-makers like B.R. Ambedkar have done bad job. Our system of governance was modelled on Europian systems. Yet, Europian systems are much cleaner.


Finally, both the colonial period with its widespread poverty and the breakdown of job security in traditional occupations, as well as the controlled economy of the socialist period led to the creation of a culture of scarcity. This culture of scarcity itself led to a desperation, an attitude of every man for himself, a need to break the symbolic and literal queue and get in front, since it was doubtful whether staying in the queue would get one served at all.


Amazing observation. However this license Raj was not to the vestige of the British Raj, but a deliberate act by then Prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru who wanted to model India on Russia.


As a result, corruption is a form of subverting the system, both by the employees as well as by their customers, the general public – by creating an unofficial, but functioning system of private transactions in lieu of the dysfunctional and often antagonistic official one from the perspective of the people. This is one aspect of understanding why a large number of countries that show up at the bottom of Transparency International's Corruption Perception Index are former colonies.

Amazing observation.
However, I think it's more of a function of poverty than the former colonization. Because corruption is prevalent in Latin America as well who won their freedom from colonization 200 years ago.
e.g. you will see more corruption is Africa than the Americas.

Also, I think it's related to how well the society adapts to change. We like to keep the things as they are. That might be the reason why this non-functioning license Raj continued till 1990 when other developing countries were already smart enough to find out what works and what doesn't much earlier and were racing ahead.

Another reason I can think of is we don't have much "rebel genes". We try not to make waves even if the system is unfair and accept as something unevitable. As a result, the corruption started to spread slowly but steadily in the post-independance era and its progress was unhindered because there was hardly any opposition to it.



Your solutions are awesome and the argument that cost of non-confirmance should be greater than the cost of confirmance is perfect.






They are generally regarded as honest, hard-working entrepreneurs, employees and citizens. How is it that the same mothers, fathers and teachers, who have presumably failed in India, appear to have not done a terribly bad job when their children land in the US?

This is because the people who go to the US are the law abiding middle-class who slog hard to study and do well in their careers. Also, Indians are confirmist by nature. I don't think if US was corrupt, they would have not bribed the officials and become the part of the system as in India.



"
An interesting example is the fact that prevalent spousal killing for insurance money in the United States is not dissimilar with spousal killing for “dowry” in India.

Muder-for-Insurance is prevalent in the US? This might pass as a fact in RSS circles, but it's entirely false. In fact no govt. treats murders-for-insurance separately than the other types of murders. So, I wonder where the author got this information?
Anybody who is even slightly aware of Insurance dynamics knows how difficult it is to get away from Insurance companies and Police dept who have a nose for frauds. And claiming that it is prevalent in the US is nothing short of saying that most of the Americans are stupid.

Dowry is simply derogatory to women. And murder-for-dowry is the lowest a family can stoop down on a scale of humanity.



“abortion” is treated in liberal discourse in the US as a matter of “a woman's right to choose”, while in Indian liberal discourse it is labeled as “foeticide”, to emphasize its relation to murder, and studied as a culture-attributed crime.

Author is insinuating that in the USA, abortion is done under the uise of woman's right to choose when the fact of the matter is IT IS a woman's right to choose because it's her body. And if she gets pregnant, she has to decide whether to go for abortion or keep the baby. And whether feutus is a human being is long debated issue.

By the way, in India, abortion is done for entirely different reason - to kill the female feutus so that the parents don't have to pay dowry, but in fact will get dowry. In fact the Indian govt had to ban sex-de



  roop_910 posted 2 yrs ago

Not really, they are heirs of Raja Harischandra and Bapuji.



  raghu23 posted 2 yrs ago

Nice article.  Added it to forumsofindia.com's articles section.



  Surajit Basu posted 2 yrs ago

Good article.

In a feudal world, business transactions were done in a way that today would be called corrupt. The collection system, and people in the chain, absorbed part of the collection; there was little "salary". This is true of early Europe also. In Europe and US, with democracy, there has also been greater transparency, greater rule of law, greater involvement between individuals and the state at local levels. Indian democracy needs to do some of these.

Here are my additions to your list

  • Improving transparency of government: the right to public information should be implemented more and more. All government departments should publish all public information on the net- projects, project plans, status reports, expenses, contracts awarded and rationale; public statistics - land areas, ownership deeds etc. some of this has been done in some places and has helped enormously.
  • Paying better salaries where needed, e.g. the police ? and in parellel implementing tough rules on corruption.
Taxation is not as complex as before; I think it is much simpler than the US! So that is not the most challenging part.



  nasdaq 123 posted 2 yrs ago

>> However, we don't find that Indians in America, for instance, are perceived to be especially corrupt. They are generally regarded as honest, hard-working entrepreneurs, employees and citizens

No! Indians are fast transforming America   in this way. Corruption, not that way because rule of law is stronger here, and they basically do nto have the guts.  BUt stuff like extreme resume tampering, software piracy, cheating on taxes whenever they can, and  hiring preferentialy (desis from same town, relatives, friends, etc and  the like) all of which are forms of Indians being 'corrupt' in a basic sense, are happening. Trust me,  INDIANS are corrupt in their minds. i



  SanjuM posted 2 yrs ago

YES YES AND YES atleast 6-7 personnel incindents to prove. wanna debate, two real sister sleeping in same bed along with on'es husband and maried an NRI to get green card, opened NRI account promising to share the profit  and when it was time to honor the promise threats to crush by one of the 50 luxury buses owned by rich brother in law in Baroda Gujarat offcourse his father operated hotel famous for supplying GI..ls to top officials, seeling se.. for money welcome to the land of GANDHI   



  Abha Singh posted 2 yrs ago

So, are we to blame the people who drew up our constitution?

Perhaps not. Perhaps it's our collective innertia that is to blame for the state our nation is in. POint is - we want to make a change but we do not know how......after introspections and analysis - it's time we looked for ANSWERS. There is something good in the couuntry - for a lot of us turned out real good.

But, what about the remaining? 

Just yesterday, I just saw the movie Rang De Bsanti and the reason I am mentioning this is because it also deals with the issue of corruption in our homeland. Like me, the entire hall-full of NRIs (we saw the movie in New York City) was stunned to silence by the time the movie was over. The movie was a little too real, almost like pages from each of our lives. Only problem is to me the mesage it gave was "Try taking the onus of changing things in the system and you are most certain to get killed"

POint is, just how many of us are actually prepared to even consider "dying" for our country?





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